Show Notes:
Growing up in Echo Park within Los Angeles, Angelica Martin knew that she loved animals and dreamed of becoming a vet. After spending time teaching Special Education as a high school student, she realized her love for helping other humans and pivoted her career goal to becoming a doctor. On this episode, learn about the financial and structural obstacles that Angelica has overcome to get to where she is today, as an MD Candidate at UC Davis. Her story will inspire you to make no excuses and get stubborn about your career dreams.
Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Bill & Melinda Gates Scholarship
Transcript:
Angelica Ramirez Martin: I got accepted to medical school in November and any medical student will tell you that as soon as you get that first acceptance, it’s like brick are off of your shoulders. You are going to be a doctor somewhere, somehow. You got in somewhere. So, that’s great. So, I had that pressure lifted off my shoulders.
Podcast Introduction: Welcome to the Early Career Moves podcast, the show that highlights remarkable, young professionals of color killing it on their career journeys. I’m your host, Priscilla Esquivel Weninger, proud Texas Latina, daughter of immigrants and lover of breakfast tacos. Meet me for a coffee chat every Friday as we dive into a special guest story and hear all about their challenges, milestones and lessons learned. If you’re a young professional of color and you’re feeling lost in your career or just need a dose of inspiration, you’re in the right place. Let’s get started.
Guest Introduction: Hey everyone, welcome to Episode 27 of Season One of the Early Career Moves podcast. Today, I’m so excited to welcome Angelica Ramirez Martin. Angelica is a Latina from L.A and she is currently now a third year medical student at UC Davis. On today’s episode, she’s going to break down what it took for her to get to this point, to now be an M.D. candidate, future Latina doctor at UC Davis and I love her story because it’s not a linear one. It’s one that was very… it was a winding road, it was non-linear, there were many points of time when Angelica wasn’t sure how exactly she would get to her destination but you can tell from her story how stubborn, in a good way, she was about her career goal and dream.
A little bit about Angelica: she and I crossed paths in college. She was a biology, women’s and gender studies double major. After college, she went to Boston University, where she got a Master’s in Public Health and then she worked at California Physicians Alliance, where she advoMCATed for health care reform and eventually even became an Executive Director. No big deal and after this, is when she decided to go get her post BACC which she’ll talk about what that means and how this was a really critical step to help her get to med school at UC Davis and eventually, what it was like to cross that big finish line and get her medical school acceptance. So excited to share her story with you. Before I leave you to the interview, I just want to remind you Episode 30 will be the last episode of Season One. It’s been such an amazing ride to go down Season One with you and on the last episode, I will be sharing my top five favorite nuggets that I personally got from all of the interviews that we did in Season One. So, definitely tune in for that one and I hope you enjoy today’s episode.
Interview
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Hey, Angelica, so excited to have you on the show. Welcome.
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Hi. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Of course. So, I’m really excited to have you on the show today to talk about your journey to med school, what it looked like. Now you’re on your way to become a doctor and so, let’s start with just you sharing a little bit about your upbringing, where you’re from and a little bit about yourself.
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah. So, I grew up in Echo Park which is a small community, well, not that small, it’s pretty big in L.A. Mostly, when I was there, actually, it’s changed a lot in the recent years but when I was there, it was a mostly immigrant community. I grew up in a single parent home, so my dad died when I was three years old. So, it was always just my mom, my sister who’s older and my younger brother and I went to the local schools, very overcrowded, my high school graduating class was 5000 students but I was very lucky to live in that community. It taught me to be independent because I had to take the bus to school since middle school and everything and walk to elementary school and all that and it wasn’t the safest but you get street smart which I really value now. So, after high school, I went to Wellesley and that was definitely different.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Yeah, which is where we crossed paths and so I want to hear a little bit about how you decided to become a human doctor. I know you mentioned that you were really interested in becoming a vet and wanting to pursue that path. How did you kind of land in this place where you were like, okay, I want to go to med school?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah, I’ve always really loved animals. So, apparently, my dad had these old National Geographic videos and when he died, I think we kept them for a while and we didn’t have cable or anything like that. So, I must have put them on over and over again and the power of a teacher was really evident throughout my elementary school trajectory because one teacher saw me and he was like, hey, we were talking about some other student and how he thought that she was
going to get a scholarship for her softball skills or something like that and I looked at him and, wanting validation as well, I was like, “Oh, what do you think I’ll get a scholarship in?” And he’s like, “I think you’re going to get a scholarship for Biology.” and ever since then, I’m just like, “Oh, okay. I think I’m good at biology.”
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Wow.
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
And I really liked it. Yeah. He had such an impact on my life and so I wanted to be a vet growing up and I’m a really stubborn person. So, I just kept wanting to be a vet and no one said anything to me about how difficult it is, how competitive it is to get into vet school until I got to high school and I was just like, “Oh, okay, cool. That’s fine.” and I just kept at it until I… because I was being raised by a single mother, I had to provide a lot of my own stuff, just provide for myself, take care of myself and also money was very tight, we completely relied on the social services of L.A county to survive and my band teacher because I was in high school, marching band and jazz band, my band teacher knew my older sister. My sister was in color guard and so he gave her a job during our vaMCATion time as a teacher’s aide and when she graduated because she is three years older than me, I was a freshman and he’s like “Hey Angelica. I was wondering if you wanted to take over your sister shop so that you can have a little bit of money. You’re here all the time anyway, so you can get paid for this.”
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Mhm.
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
So, he put me in charge of the music writing class and running that class, there was a group of special ED kids and for one period and I just… my interactions with them completely changed my career trajectory. I’m just like, wait, why am I wanting to help animals feel better when there are people, especially people in my own community, that I can help? And I immediately thought that I was going to research and find a cure for Down Syndrome but then I spoke to a couple of people and they’re just like “You know that going into research and trying to find a cure for something means that you are going to be in a lab and you are not a lab personality. You’re little too…”
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Yeah.
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
You need people interaction and I was just like, “Oh, yeah, that’s true. Thank you for pointing that out.” and I’m like, great, I’ll be a doctor and then ever since, then switched over to wanting to be a human doctor.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Very cool. So, you were pre-med at Wellesley. What was it like getting through the coursework? I know it’s really rigorous. Like what was that like for you?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah. So, going to Wellesley, I didn’t meet anyone that told me, “Hey, you’re not supposed to be in the science classes and you’re not supposed to want to become a physician.” and everything like that. So, I honestly was just keeping up with everyone else, you know? Everyone is doing the work, okay, I’m going to do more to. So, it wasn’t… I was just checking off boxes. It just felt like, okay, well I have this amount of homework to do, let me go ahead and do the homework. More than anything, what helped me get through the first couple years of Wellesley was making friends and just feeling at home over there, feeling like I was becoming the person that I went there to become, this confident, quick thinking individual and that was just by being surrounded by people and being surrounded by other students and trying to mimic what they were doing. So, a lot of my peers, yeah, they went to really good high schools and have been prepped since probably birth and everything like that. So, by trying to imitate them in the way that they spoke, the way that they were approaching the problems and everything in class was great for my schoolwork but then outside of that, I think a lot of my growth and confidence came from interacting with the students, my friends, on a personal level and that led into having confidence in class.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Yeah, totally agree. So, I know then, after Wellesley, you decided to go to get your MPH, your Master’s in Public Health because you are a Bill and Melinda Gates scholar and so you had all this funding that you needed to use and so you decided to get your MPH. How did you use those two years of your MPH to get ready for med school? What was that like?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah. So, I had my full schedule for my MPH which I believe was four classes and then I had a fifth class which was at the undergrad campus, just Organic Chemistry A and then the second semester of my first year, I had that second Organic Chemistry class and then, during my second year at my MPH, I tried to start studying for the MCAT, at least towards the end so, that the second semester of my second year and because I thought that I wanted to go straight from my MPH into medical school which a couple of students did and it just didn’t end up working for me, I had to push back my MCAT just because it was too much, taking a full course load and studying for the MCAT at the same time and then trying to move back home and everything. It was a mess.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Okay. So, tell us about the MCAT process. Like how intense was it? How many hours do you need to prepare for it?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
I learned some great lessons from preparing for the MCAT. It should be pretty intense. It definitely depends on your foundation, how strong your basic science foundation is but it should definitely be pretty intense. There was a moment in time where I was studying like it was my full-time job, eight hours a day, especially during the weekends, taking practice exams and everything because the exam itself is eight hours. So, you have to simulate that during your practice exams. When I actually did well on the MCAT, it was because I was following a very strict schedule of like waking up at seven A.M. and then studying for a couple hours, taking a break at noon for lunch and I would eat the same lunch every single day and then I would also, eat the same breakfast every single day and reviewing afterwards and blah, blah, blah. So, it’s a pretty intense process and it’s also scary. No one talks about what it takes to prepare for the MCAT and for me, when I did score well, I actually took two months off of work, completely off without pay to study for the MCAT and what does that mean? That means that I had to be smart and either save up for two months worth of rent because I’ve always only relied on myself.
I can ask my family for money and no one really talks about that, students in my situation where it’s just like it’s scary to prepare for the MCAT because of the financial implications of it. So, I always try to also find free resources. I was at the library a lot and they have these books and that code that’s in the book, hey, it still works. So, I would use that as well but it’s still difficult to get all of the MCAT studying in place and to get all of your life in place that’s needed to study for the MCAT. I think it’s important to point out that I took them MCAT three times. You usually only want to take it once and score well but I took the old MCAT and I scored okay in that one and then I took the new MCAT as soon as it came out. I was part of that first group on the first day to take it. I did not score well on that one and then I actually had to retake the new one because your score is only good for three years. So, my old score which was good, was expiring. So, I took it and I did well on that one. So, yeah, I took it three times.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
And is it really expensive to sign up for it?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Oh yeah. I completely forgot about that, yes. So, every time you sign up for it, I think it’s $300 or $200. There is a fee assistance program that brings it down to, I think, $100 or $150 but it’s still $100 or $150. So, it’s still a lot of money when you have none but yeah and then if you have to move your date, there’s a penalty, you have to pay for that as well and that happened a couple of times for me.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Ok and so tell us a little bit about your decision to enroll in a post BACC program and like, tell us a little bit about like what is that? Why do people choose to do that and why did you decide to do that for your path to get into med school?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
So, I applied to medical school a year after getting out of MPH so, I started working immediately after my MPH and I applied with the first two MCAT scores that I had and I went on one interview and I got waitlisted and I was hoping and praying that I would get off the waitlist but that didn’t happen. I ended up getting rejected. So, that’s when I started studying again for the MCAT and I took it that third time. The thing is that applying to medical school is a year-long process, it is so grueling and demanding. I mean, you submit 20 essays plus just waiting to hear anything from the schools and, of course, every essay that you submit is a $100 fee application. So, it’s just grueling mentally, economically, physically. So, I wanted to make sure that I only applied for one more time and I looked at my application and I was asking myself, how could I make this as strong as possible? Like, what is my weakness here? What are they seeing to make them think that I shouldn’t be accepted into their med school? And I was very honest with myself and I was like, well, my MCAT score is okay, it’s not bad and what else could it be in terms of my extracurriculars and everything? I mean, that’s more than okay. It has to be my grades.
So, even though I did really well in my graduate school program, medical schools really like to see a strong undergrad science grade profile. So, I looked at my grades from Wellesley and Wellesley actually sent out a letter with our transcript saying due to grade deflation, we have lower than national average science GPA. I hope you take that into consideration when you’re looking at our alumni and it’s like, okay, well, that letter is great and all but when I’m being compared to individuals that have a higher GPA, it’s really difficult for the admissions person to be like, oh, no, there’s this letter here that’s saying that they have lower GPA. So, we need to take that into consideration. I mean, I don’t know how that works. So, anyways, I was like, I need to get my science GPA up and show them that I really can do science. I know that I’ve been out of school for, at that point it had been five years, but I still can do science and I can excel at that. So… and the way that you can show schools to do this is either through a formal post BACC program. So, certain schools have these programs set up or you take upper-level science division classes as a cohort of… my program was 20 people or you can just go on your own and start taking random upper division science courses and you just stack up probably like 8 or 6 and you show the school that, hey, look, I took these classes and I scored really well, my GPA as high.
So, I ended up choosing the formal way of doing it because I knew that I also needed connections to the health care field here in California because being in Massachusetts for undergrad and graduate school, I didn’t make the connections in terms of mentors that could read over my essays or tell me that I should change this aspect of my application or speak to this person who can advocate for me because of the connections that they know or whatever. So, that’s why I chose to apply to the UC post BACC programs and so it was honestly a very, looking back on it, it was exactly what my application needed to show that, hey, I took all the science courses and at a UC and you can compare me to other students and I scored as good, if not better, in the same classes as they are. So, ignore my undergrad scores.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
And was it scary to have to go the post BACC route after you were already working, already making money and have to maybe take out loans to go this direction? Like, how did you think of it like in terms of finances?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
There’s this thread in my life about having to make decisions based on my finances. So, once again, for the post BACC program, it was very scary. It wasn’t like, oh, I need to take classes, let me go ahead and take classes. It was actually very scary to think that I had to step away for a year from actually bringing in income and being able to take care of myself and how am I going to pay for the classes. So, a lot of people don’t talk about that either. They think that it’s just very easy to say, well, you want to go to medical school, you have to get… you have to take these extra classes and I wish that it was like that and I wish that’s all I had to focus on but I had to basically build myself up and prep myself to step away from earning an income and just solely becoming a student again and that was very scary.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
That is so scary. So, how did you make that work? Did you have to just save up for personal living expenses and take out loans?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah, that’s basically it. I was very smart about my money and how it was spent and I saved up leading to the post BACC program and I know a couple other people in my program had to take out loans and just trying to make ends meet that way but it’s… that was part of the reason why I didn’t do a post BACC earlier because I didn’t want to have to take that scary step of not making money and not being able to take care of myself in that way. So, if any other student feels that, way which I actually spoke to the student last week who was having the same trouble making the decision, it’s perfectly normal and it’s something that each person has to find a way to navigate through and for me, it was saying… it was reassuring to myself that you’ll be fine, just save up for it. This is an investment in yourself and this is something that has to be done in order for you to get to the next step and get to where you want to be but it was very much an internal process of like, you’ll be fine.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
And did you have to spend the year after that applying? Was that like a separate year after that year?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Mhm. Exactly. So, I’m leaving my job and I’m going to school and then I’m supposed to find some job for one year. So, like what’s going to do it? Where am I going to do that? Who’s going to hire me? So, that was also another panic inducing thought.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Mhm. So, how… what did you end up doing in that case?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
The universe ended up working out in my favor in that I was working at a nonprofit before starting in the post BACC program and I told them, they were very supportive, it was a health advocacy nonprofit, I told them that I was going to leave because I got accepted to the program. They were extremely happy for me. So, I was… during the post BACC program, finishing it up and the Executive Director of the nonprofit was stepping down as I was finishing the post BACC program. So, the President of the nonprofit called me and he was like, “Hey, we know you’re finishing up, we know you’re going to be applying to med school and starting next year, probably so, we would love for you to be our Executive Director if that is possible.” and I was really hesitant to say yes. I mean, I… so, I had already moved up through the ranks at this organization, I was Associate Director before I left and I loved it, I loved the work and everything but I wasn’t sure if I was ready to take on the Executive Director role. Once again, it was a very scary decision that I had to make; whether I take this role and possibly grow and learn and do some really amazing things with my one year or I try to play it safe and try to find something else because I’m just not comfortable taking the ED role but I ended up once again talking to myself and being like, you know what? Sink or swim. You sink or swim in every situation and you can take this position and just remind yourself, sink or swim, just go for it. So, I ended up being an Executive Director for this organization for a year and once again, it was a great decision and I look back on it fondly.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Yeah, I’m sure you grew so much as an Executive Director, being so young and being in charge of so much at the time and I’m curious, when you were thinking about how to set the agenda for your year as an Executive Director, what did you… how did you choose what you would focus on?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
So, I looked at the organization and I was like, well, there needs to be some foundational work here so that anyone who comes after me can build on it. So, I focused on that during my year and I’m like, if I do a good job during this year that I have, I will feel comfortable saying that I was an Executive Director who contributed to this organization, to longevity of it and to the mission of it. So, that’s how I approach that one-year timeline.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
And all during this time, you’re also applying to med school and I’m assuming like interviewing and getting all of that complete.
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah, I had to be very scheduled during that first summer. So, I would work and then immediately I would just go over. I like working at coffee shops, so I would just go over to a coffee shop, buy myself a drink as like a bribe basically to myself to work on my applications and I would take my dinner with me and just not leave until I got some work done. So, it was a very stressful first couple of months but it gets done if your organized.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Yeah. So, tell us about the big moment, like when you finally got your acceptance and you decided to go to UC Davis, like, what was that like?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
So, I was actually very lucky in that I got an early acceptance to a different medical school. So, I got accepted to medical school in November and any medical student will tell you that as soon as you get that first acceptance, it’s like bricks are off of your shoulders. You are going to be a doctor somewhere, somehow. You got in somewhere so that’s great. So, I had that pressure lifted off my shoulders. So, I actually interviewed a little bit later at Davis and I didn’t give my acceptance to Davis until either March or April. Yeah. So, anyways, I was having a really rough day at the office that morning and I like going grocery shopping, I just like looking at the different aisles and just walking around, I really like cooking as well, so I just like doing that. So, there was a grocery store around the corner from my office. I was having a rough day, so I ended up going to the grocery store to walk around and get myself a treat and I was in the chip aisle and I receive a phone call because Davis actually calls you and I ended up crying, of course, in the chip, I was just like, okay, well, this is definitely memorable but yeah, it was just great to hear from your dream school that you’re accepted and that they want you to be a part of their class and it was like, okay, my plans are solidified because before then, it was like, well, I’m not really sure, I’m still waiting to hear back from a couple of different schools and I don’t know when I’ll move but as soon as Davis called, it was like, okay, well, I’m going to do this and their orientation starts this day and it was very beautiful to finally have a plan for the next year. So, it was great. It was amazing.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
That’s amazing and now you’re in med school. Now, you’re finally doing the thing. If you could go back in time and tell your younger self, someone who’s trying to go down your path, what would you tell yourself?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Well, I would definitely repeat what someone else told me earlier in my career. He knew that I didn’t get accepted to medical school the first time and we were talking about it and he’s like You know Angelica…” he’s was an older gentleman. He was like, “You know, I’m old and I have been through so many different phases of my life and looking back now, I see each phase of that and I honestly believe that I was where I was supposed to be. I was supposed to learn something from that situation at some point and that is the reason why I didn’t get to this or get to that and so you should try thinking about it that way.” and ever since he told me that, I completely agree. If I would have gotten into med school that first time, I never would have done the health policy work that I’ve done, I never would have been ED and learned so many lessons from that, I wouldn’t have met my husband during the post BACC and everything like that. So, I would tell myself that it’s frustrating but try to think of it as you’re here to learn something. There’s something here that you’re supposed to take from this and then also, I think the biggest lesson that I’ve learned is that you need friends that are in similar situations. So, I would try to make more friends that are on the pre-med path specifically because even just in a science class and being like, “Hey, we have homework due tomorrow, I got these answers. Did you get the same answers?” Being able to do that completely changes everything and that’s what I had with the post BACC. 20 of us were in the same classes and we were able to run our ideas past each other, we are able to study together for the same exact exam and everything and that completely changed everything. So, I think that’s the biggest thing that I would tell myself; find friends who are on the same path as you and make sure that you lean on them and that they lean on you.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Those are awesome pieces of advice. Thank you so much Angelica for being here with us today, sharing your story. I’m excited for people to, like, learn from your path and not be afraid to like take some pauses and steps back and reassess and plan to succeed, you know?
Angelica Ramirez Martin:
Yeah, yeah. It’s definitely a winding path but I think that being stubborn and keeping your eyes on the prize definitely works out. I mean, if you stick to that, if you’re willing to take chances, beautiful things can come from it.
Priscilla Esquivel Weninger:
Thanks for tuning into the Early Career Moves podcast. Be sure to visit ECM podcast.com to join the conversation, access the show notes and become a part of our newsletter community and if you love this episode, head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate and leave a review. Talk to you next week.